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Post by Joshua Kitz on May 24, 2012 15:57:25 GMT -5
This has come up before at conventions and home games, but it happened repeatedly at CanGames. Particularly the "Multiple Effects" with a character named Shade. While I have ways of handling this as a GM, these have never been clearly set out in the rules.
(All rules in Simple Superheroes are meant to be guidelines of course. Most talents will function as indicated in the text, but there will be exceptions, perhaps many.)
Part 1
Multiple Attacks
In terms of "Multiple Attacks" or perhaps "Multiple Actions" I have often let heroes split there dice as they like among there foes. This however has never left me entirely satisfied.
Simply put I think this may be too powerful, particularly if a character attempts to do something other than damage an opponent (such as disarming a group of police officers). This is primarily because talents are suppose to be narrow, and allowing everyone to split dice as they like with no penalty makes many talents more broadly useful and also decreases the need to take an 'area of effect' talent. (Area of Effect is currently discussed in Chapter 2, Range and Are of Effect p. 23)
The proposed Solution: Multi-attack and Multi-function talents
Any time a character attempts to affect multiple opponents they can attempt to do so, but suffer a -1 dice penalty. A Multi-Attack [O] or a Multi-Function [F] talent can be taken to offset this. These can be taken as 'general' or associated with one particular talent. If general they follow the normal rules for 'pooling talents': they can be added once per combat at a further -1 to any offensive (a talent whose Intent is designated [O]) or functional (a talent whose Intent is designated [F]) talent.
A "Multi" talent associate with one particular talent can be pooled with that one talent over an over. It suffers a total of -2 dice, just like the general talent.
Both "Multi" talents allow a maximum number of dice as the base talent -1 against a single foe.
This is my early thoughts on the design and I remain open to any thoughts on the matter.
Part 2 will be Maintaining Multiple (superpower) effects
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Post by aneesh on May 25, 2012 13:20:06 GMT -5
To clarify:
-When you attempt to attack multiple opponents, is it -1 die per opponent or -1 die in total for any number of people (effectively making it an area of effect attack).
-If a player were to have a "general" talent that offsets the requirement to reduce -1 die, how does that differ from not having that talent in the first place? Suppose I have "Sand Swarm (4)", for instance, that allows me to hit multiple people or a single person and I have a general talent "Sand Affinity (2)". Does that then mean I can pool these two talents once per combat to have a total of (6) points which I can split amongst any number of people for (6-1=5) damage each?
-How is a person allowed to split damage? Can he just target any opponent he wants with these multi-attack feats? If so it is far better to have a single high powered attack and one multi-attack talent to split damage as the player likes.
-I like the idea of Multi-attack and Multi-functions. In fact I think you might want consider creating a list of "specializations" and "quirks" features that can be applied to any attack talent (or function talent) to add (in the case of specializations) or reduce (in the case of quirks) the number of effective dies in each roll.
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Post by Joshua Kitz on May 25, 2012 18:31:06 GMT -5
To clarify: #1. When you attempt to attack multiple opponents, is it -1 die per opponent or -1 die in total for any number of people (effectively making it an area of effect attack). #1. Multi-attacks suffer -1 dice. Then the remaining dice are split as desired. Eg. Templar could use his Might 5- Tempest [O] talent to attack two enemies with 2 dice each. This does not function like an area attack. True area of effect talents (the two burst in the current text) let you roll your full talent against multiple foes. The exception being type 3 "targeted multiple attacks" area attacks which are similar. The main difference being they always suffer the -1 die, but cannot be dodged. I may rewrite this piece into the"multi" section. This type of effect is best represented by Mental attacks or similar which may be resisted but not avoided. #2. If a player were to have a "general" talent that offsets the requirement to reduce -1 die, how does that differ from not having that talent in the first place? Suppose I have "Sand Swarm (4)", for instance, that allows me to hit multiple people or a single person and I have a general talent "Sand Affinity (2)". Does that then mean I can pool these two talents once per combat to have a total of (6) points which I can split amongst any number of people for (6-1=5) damage each? #2. No your math is incorrect. Whenever you pool you lose an additional die. Suppose your character had Accuracy 4- sand swarm [O]. If he tried to attack multiple foes with this standard talent he would have 3 dice (4 dice - 1 die). So he could attack three people with 1 die or one person with 2 dice and another with 1 die. If your character later advanced and took Accuracy 2 - Multi-attack [O]. He could pool Accuracy 4- sand swarm [O] and Accuracy 2 - Multi-attack [O] once. The roll would be 4 dice (4 + 2 -1 -1). This character could also pool this general multi-attack Talent will another attack Talent once, say 5- rock throw.If instead of a general multi-attack this character could take associated his multi-attack Talent with a single talent, Say Accuracy 2- Multi-sand strike then he could pool this with sand swarm all day long. But he couldn't apply it to any other talents he might have. #3. How is a person allowed to split damage? Can he just target any opponent he wants with these multi-attack feats? If so it is far better to have a single high powered attack and one multi-attack talent to split damage as the player likes. #3. Multi-attacking can be used on any opponents within reason. Melee type attacks would have to be against foes in melee, while ranged attacks usually require a particular talent. Obviously this is a matter a preference. A single matched (associated) set of Talents is less flexible. If your character has a fire offensive, a light offensive, and a hand-to-hand offensive then he may well be better off taking a "general" multi-attack talent. #4. I like the idea of Multi-attack and Multi-functions. In fact I think you might want consider creating a list of "specializations" and "quirks" features that can be applied to any attack talent (or function talent) to add (in the case of specializations) or reduce (in the case of quirks) the number of effective dies in each roll. #4. This is an interesting idea. I think a large list of things which reduce a die may take away from the simplicity of the system. It may also be difficult to create such a list in a sense that makes sense for a game that is so open-ended in terms of powers. But I would be interested in hearing some examples of this if you can think of some. |
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Post by Joshua Kitz on Jun 4, 2012 13:22:33 GMT -5
PART 2
Maintaining Multiple Superpower Effects[/u]
First a little background: The principle situation that sparked this line of thought was a particular hero "Shade" who had a talent Might 4- grapple with shadows [O]. He used this talent to restrain opponents. His first action would be to grapple one opponent, then his second to grapple another etc. Clearly he shouldn't be able to continue this indefinetly and neither should it be as easy to maintain once those opponents try to break free.
Limit Multiple Effect by Talents Rank and Superpower finesse:
A hero can maintain a maximum number of ongoing effects and current effects equal to the Talents rank, or for a mix of talents, their superpower finesse rank. Usually talents whose intent is defensive do not count towards this limit. If a character whishes to take a new action using a power when they have already reached their limit, they must stop maintaining one of their current effects.
Example: Gravitor (Superpower Finesse 4- gravity) can maintain as many as 4 concurrent gravity effects from any of her 4 gravity Talents. If she only employs Might 5- reverse gravity / lift objects [O] than her maximum is 5.
Joint defence
Against a character maintaining multiple effects those under their influence may combine their dice. Unlike normal dice pooling, this does not suffer a minus -1 die per person. Every success achieved frees one person from whatever influence or condition they were under. The order of freedom is at the discretion of the GM or Players.
Example: Gravitor employs Might 4- crush with own weight [F] to immobilize The Cat. She succeeds (The Cat has only one die to use in opposition). On her next action she tries to immobilize Mr. Mercurial, with a lucky roll she also suceeds (Mr. Mercurial opposses her with his aptly named Mobility 4- defy gravity [FD]). On Mr. Mercurial and The Cat's action they can try to break free of the influence of the together, combining their 5 (4+1) dice against Gravitor's Might 4- crush with own weight [F]. As long as they score 2 successes than both are free.
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